This is where we get interactive with this here blog thang. Comments are always welcome on any of my posts as long as they are vulgarity free and respectful to other commenters. However this is one of a handful of categories of posts that not only allow for comment but I AM BEGGING for your INPUT peoples. Let's talk about the Bible. We need to develop this habit more. Why not start here? You will find I have thoughts of my own but will purposefully keep them to myself until AFTER others have shared their thoughts first.
These are the ground rules.
I am the moderator. I know this sounds a bit power trippy, but I am pointing out something that is obvious in order to underscore that I will ultimately determine if I think the back and forth is still progressing in a way that is beneficial overall.
Prayer is strongly encouraged before offering a thought about the scripture or someone else’s thoughts about that scripture or about the many, many thoughts that these discussions sometimes lead to.
That’s all the rules about this….. for now.
Here’s the first scripture to discuss.
Matthew 10:1-23
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
8 comments:
What aspect of these Scriptures would you like to discuss?
In some ways, I am purposefully leaving very open ended to begin with to try and let people simply give comments about what jumps out at them from these verses. I am doing this to try to give an opportunity for possibly unexpected directions for conversation because someone sees something about them that I did not even notice. However, there are several specific things within this that jump out at me as fascinating. Some of which I have specific opinions about and some I just am aware of with no clear resolve for how they create more questions than they seem to answer. I am not troubled by this, but increasingly, I am drawn to consider why there seems to be an apparent contradiction....and yes, I just now sort of answered your question without giving you a concrete answer. :)
I promise that if noone ventures any thoughts within a few days, I will try to kickstart with a handful of specifics that I have noticed and pondered. Thanks so much, David, for your willingness to interact. It means a lot to me.
OK.... two of the things that I noticed were.....1.the disciples sent out included Judas Iscariot. I have always been fascinated at the passage that refers to the sheep and goats and those "goats" who say they healed sick and cast out demons in your name. I have been perplexed that someone could do this and yet still not have the regenerate power of God at work within their own heart. I think Judas is an example of this.
2. The contradiction between "don't go among the Gentiles" in verse 9 and the later statement that they would go among the Gentiles within this same passage seems strange. I think it is prophetic, but the final verse then speaks of "they will not have gone through all the towns of Israel until He will have returned to them."
This final statement in verse 23 doesn't seem to make sense to me within a prophetic context. Any thoughts on either of these. Thanks.
I don't know if I can clarify anything, but I am confident in my ability to muddy up the waters a little more.
What's interesting about the first passage you refer to (Matt. 7.21-23, part of the Sermon on the Mount) is that Jesus is instructing his disciples on how to recognize false prophets, that is, by their fruits, and that a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. But then he gives the example you cite, of those who claim good fruit, but are rejected.
They are basing their eligibility to enter the kingdom on their works. Jesus rejects that ]claim, saying those shall enter "who do[es) the will of My Father."
Ro.11.29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."
Could God have given the false prophets true gifts, but they never really were surrendered 100% to God and were therefore "cut down" as a bad tree?
Thank you for being willing to offer your thoughts. I will be visiting Matthew 7 and prayerfully ruminating upon your offering. Very good thoughts. I don't believe that we can necessarily get clarity on each specific passage like this, but i also reject what many seem to feel which is that much of scripture is too deep and unknowable to spend a great seal of time and energy seeking to gain greater clarity on these kinds of passages. I believe they were inspired and preserved for us on purpose by God and the times that I have struggled in the past and eventually had a breakthrough of sorts has often become a window through which I understand the Bible more clearly as a whole. Thanks again!
:)
I wanna know about the last part when He says that they won't finish going through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Danny
Here's an idea. I parse it into 3 sections.
Section 1
9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
I think this is the immediate directions of what the twelve were about to do.
Section 2
16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
I think this is prophetic to what happened with the first century church. Notice it talks about them being flogged in the synagogues. This didn't happen in the immediate context when the twelve went out just after Jesus gave the instructions. But it did happen after Jesus went to heaven, during the first century persecution. The same for them being brought before governors and kings, and witnessing to the gentiles.
Section 3
21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
I think this is the end, basically. This third section displays a more volatile situation than the first two. Even brothers and parents would turn you in to be executed. Heck, even parents would have their kids executed. It's during this section that He says to flee when you're persecuted. In the second section He doesn't say to flee persecution, He says the opposite. But this might be the Great Tribulation He is speaking about.
If you look at it in the 3 sections way, then you might have a solution to the last sentence of the passage. During the Great Tribulation, they will have to flee from city to city. For the first half of the tribulation I don't think any fleeing will happen. The Great Tribulation lasts for 3 and a half years. Perhaps Jesus is saying that once the Great Tribulation starts, they will have to start fleeing from town to town in Israel. It's kinda hopeful, b/c they want have to run forever, since Jesus will come back before they exhaust all the hiding places in Israel.
Just a thought. Otherwise, I don't know how to solve the riddle. And I do not in any way know if my option is scripturally valid.
Danny
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